Ambition Today Episode Transcript
Mitch Wainer - Episode 42
Mitch Wainer's Journey From Podcast Listener To Creating Digital Ocean
This is Ambition Today. Today Mitch Wainer is the chief marketing officer at Clubhouse. A project that provides the perfect balance of Simplicity and structure. So software teams can be happier less stress and can more easily collaborate. This is ambitious today. These are the entrepreneurs creators investors and Builders who in Bish ously changed to the world explore the hardships and heroism of everyday life while we reveal the key moments to leave behind a lasting Legacy.
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We talked to Brian. She's the founder of foundational a consumer mindset platform for Financial Health and well-being. But today I'm really excited. We're joined by Mitch waiter is the chief marketing officer at Clubhouse a project management platform that provides the perfect balance of Simplicity and structures for software teams can be happier.
He is also a co-founder of digital ocean Mitch welcome to ambition today. Uh, well we are here with back at work bench or fifth. And for those of you that are longtime listeners, we interviewed by new friend Eric Duffy here. He's the founder path gather for actually episode 6. I was still getting good at packets and uh go listen to it.
Uh, but just a few other was actually acquired by degree. Um, so Mitch quickly accept the scene for listening what is worth bed for me in, New York. So workbench is a venture fund. They also offer a co-working space to Enterprise software companies such as Clubhouse and so, um, you know, they haven't handful of companies here that um use the space and you know has the community aspect, um similar to a we work here where you know, we do uh group events.
Uh today actually we have a family uh day where we're uh bringing in our you know, wives and children and uh significant others to come to uh, workbench to gather and uh, enjoy some peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Nice. Nice pretty cool. That's awesome the community. Um, so let's just jump right into it.
What? Where are you from? So, um born and raised and hot-plug, New York Long Island, uh, and I went to school in Boston, uh, graduated from Northeastern University, uh, and then uh left and uh worked in Manhattan. Yeah after school great. So, you know growing up alone help really really drawn entrepreneurship for there any early influences.
Yeah, so, uh early influence of mine, uh was with definitely my my grandmother. Um, you know, she uh, she was very focused on, you know, saving and investing in the stock market and also, Um, uh when she used to go visit her, uh sister, um up in Upstate New York on a farm. She's to uh, find uh, four leaf clovers and laminate them and give them to me and II basically at five years old.
I started my first entrepreneurial venture of selling four leaf clovers to um, my other classmates at school was your grandma. She was totally fine with it. I mean. You know who's uh song for five ten dollars each. Um, yes, you know just that experience just kind of taught me about like, you know, transacting selling and everything else at a very young age.
And it kind of June me just like I think entrepreneurial, uh, you know, the entrepreneurial DNA is kind of instilled in you. Um, You kind of have to feel it. Yeah, and at that point, like I definitely felt the passion of you know, creating value or selling something and um making a profit. So, uh, that was my first experience.
So then you went to Northeastern University, uh you doing mate so, you know, someone who's been through building a high-tech company that we're going to talk about digital ocean more on a bit. You know degree prepare you for uh for that or is there no substitute for building a company, right? Like if you were to talk me up person which path which advice would you would you and what was the experience for you?
No question. So if you fast forward from from my four-leaf clover story to when I was now in um in high school, uh, you know, the internet was still pretty new. Um, And uh eBay was becoming more and more popular. So, uh, you know, basically, uh, my friend was selling on eBay at the time and he was making eight hundred nine hundred dollars a week selling wholesale products and you know, informational CDs and and whatnot.
And so I basically pretty good that's like 4K High School huge. Yeah bought himself a Camaro or a Mustang. Um, so uh it was. Came in and uh with eBay, you know, you kind of teach yourself how to like. Uh, right EML, um to create the auction templates and uh, I taught myself any Photoshop to create the you know, the graphics to uh enhance the the auction template.
Um, so basically, you know taught myself web design and a very early age. I used macromedia Dreamweaver and I was able to build my own website and then I was in my first summer job was actually as a web designer. Um working for a software local software company and you know just before College I kind of just taught myself everything related to building an internet business and um, I spent a lot of time and sacrifice also a lot of time with my friends of like staying home.
You know staying up late and teaching myself, uh how to code how to design and how to navigate the the world on the internet and then by the time I got the school, uh, dual major in entrepreneurship and marketing unfortunately. Uh, the internet was still very new and so there's no no years this give us a sister.
So this is uh, so to 2003. So, um, You know, there was no course, um created for digital marketing for um, it was a better servant on. Yeah, I think it was all kind of like basic principles. Yeah Canadian, uh sales and uh, it was like exactly and and it was it was a little bit our enormous at the time was a little archaic and so.
You know, I I skipped class and I would you know, stay home in my dorm room and you know build websites and I was at one point making Thirty forty thousand dollars a month at the age of 19. Um, and I just felt like I was able to learn so much more by teaching myself and you know, I graduate school with uh, you know, north of a 3.0 GPA I was still able to, you know, make make my parents proud quote unquote.
You know at the other day I was teaching myself everything. Yeah, and I think that's kind of like the general theme like if you're truly passionate about your craft and being entrepreneur you kind of have to like go out and execute and just get it done. Yeah, like step on that for a second because I think a lot of people so so we're making the argument here that you know, just go ahead and doing it getting experience better than a degree.
I think a lot of people hear that and they say, all right, I should do that right, but then they'll actually taken either they're not. Stay Stay not going out with friends doing like like how do you think you cultivate that in a person it does that because that just something that Bournemouth goes back in DNA if we grandma like like the people are listening and they want to be like that.
How do they how can they manifest that in their own lives? You have any advice for that matter? I was an impossible. You know, it's it's. It requires a uh, a solid support system around you my parents were very supportive. I think that's uh, hugely valuable. Um, you know, my my my mom my dad, you know, they knew that I was you know up late working computer they you know, and and then even school like they knew that I was like, Skipping some classes to work on my internet business and and so they were fully aware of everything that was going on and they were never like you have to stop we were doing you're not having done the right path.
You have to you know, spend more time studying. Um, Like never gave me a hard time at all and they were very very loving and supporting the whole way through. Um, so I think the support system around you is a key ingredient to being successful. It's not just like, you know, otherwise like you're going if you don't have that support system.
Yeah, uh, you kind of have to build it, uh finding, you know new friend, you know friends or a new you know, Community to surround yourself with to like help you get there but that support systems like instills confidence and like as a young teenager, you know going into school like, you know that confidence building stages is super important.
Yeah, I could be like and I think you know flip side of that is like keeping yourself watching too much Netflix and you keep saying for six months you want to build this company then unique. It's on you. Maybe you would recognize that as a weakness, right? So you just go getting all the space. So you're not even template right?
How do you architect your life in a way that um, you can you can set yourself up to not be tempted to to execute enough, you know, optimize your own daily routines. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's they're definitely you know, there's a component of self-discipline. Um, And uh, but you know, it's if you're if you're super passionate about something like you're gonna you're gonna want to spend the time and you're gonna hone in and you're not going to really focus you're gonna have your blinders on you're not going to really focus on you know, the party or the event that you're going to miss or you know, there's no catch just don't care like the only thing you like with when you're super passionate he care about is that one thing that you're building our creator.
Um, and so, you know, it kind of just gives you laser tunnel vision, um, when you find that passion everything just kind of clicks and the self discipline aspect gets really easy, but I love um, so so after much, uh, anything else private college, I mean, I think I think I covered the high-level Point.
Um, you know, one thing is like going back to the support system. My dad got me my first my first summer job working as a web designer. And web developer for his friend who uh ran a software company and then um, he got new uh job as a web developer web, uh designer and and so he was always, you know, my dad was always uh, super supportive and going back to that support system, uh theme it's like it's super important.
All right. Um, so after college we did digital marketing with some Factory. Right. I love I love that sounds powerful. Yeah, it does somehow. Uh, so how did market then compared to marketing now? What was your experience there? What did you do? So, um, so I was you know this young, uh Hot Shot coming at school, you know, knowing a lot about uh, the new world of digital marketing and so.
You know, I started working at this, uh integrated marketing firm based in that stuff. I was uh working from New York at the time. It was a small boutique agency working closely with Fortune 100 companies like TD Ameritrade in McKesson. Um, and so I was uh at the time, you know, 22 23. Uh in these large courtrooms meeting with top Executives that you know have have been working for the past 20 25 years.
And you know, here's this like 22 23 year old telling the room like, hey, the future word of mouth is on Facebook and on Twitter. I'm uh social media sites and they were like looked at me totally cross-eyed. Like they like they they couldn't understand how like these, you know, personal social media networks were gonna like, uh impact business and they were just kind of completely blind to it and so like I was.
I was definitely ahead of Trends coming out of school because I was so uh involved in integrated with the new world of digital marketing and uh and the internet and so at this, um at this marketing firm, uh, it was great because I was exposed to things Beyond uh digital marketing and I and I learned a lot about.
Branding and positioning in storytelling. Um, and how do you need position a business in a in a saturated Market? I think that experience really helped me grow, uh digitalocean, which we'll get to a little bit later and now Clubhouse which we'll get to a little bit later but later that you know that Millennial said that no one else is seeing Tech myself.
It's a dinosaur industry. It is slow moving. You know Netflix could have 70% market share and be like, you know, I wonder if we should maybe not TV anymore and we should switch appetizing digital. It's like yeah, you should do that seven years ago, but there's so much money just floating around Matt.
It doesn't matter. Yeah. Yeah, it doesn't matter and and so. I was at this marketing firm for five years, I quickly, you know worked my uh work my way up to director level as a director of digital marketing Brandy. And um, you know, just became the kind of this full-stack marketer where I was able to code I was able to design I was able to uh, optimize a website for SEO.
I was able to run it paid campaigns through AdWords and different channels. I was able to you know, basically and with branding position and I also ran some PR efforts and I was I became kind of small stack marketer super right and like Tina. Sorry knife, you don't you know, and and I I I was exposed to the through the entire landscape of marketing a very young age and I was able to like become the Swiss army knife where you know, I had all these valuable tools, uh in my toolkit and then like, um, basically kind of hit a wall where I stopped wearing and stopped growing and basically, um, I uh was beginning to like reach out to my to my network at the time looking for a new opportunity.
Um, and I found uh, uh, this this job posting on Craigslist for head of marketing role at a at a hosting company based in SoHo. I'll reality reality check Network then um and then I met these, uh, these two brothers, uh who interviewed me and and then at the time they showed me this prototype for uh, uh, what is now digital ocean?
I got super excited about the opportunity, uh, enjoying them soon after I love the 20 super strength. It's a Business Insider article now, uh, so you could actually Google and find the story. Yeah. Um, so what is the digital ocean for those listening? Um, yeah, just give us a so digital ocean is a uh, Cloud platform for developers and their teams.
And so um what we start digitalocean we saw this, uh, This you know that there was this major Gap in the industry in the cloud hosting space where um, there was a lot of uh, tools and options and a lot of complexity. Um, and so there was a ton of friction for developers to get their app online to you know, spin up a server to employer application.
There was no really easy intuitive way to do that. And so we you know, Found this and this like Niche opportunity, uh to build a really simple and Powerful, uh, Cloud platform for developers to spin up a server, uh virtual machine and get their app running on line. Um, and so that was kind of the initial, uh, you know, uh conceptual conception, Uh for digital ocean and you know, the bigger players they were focusing on the Enterprise businesses and they were um, totally neglecting the individual developers now, uh, and and not building for the end user experience and that's really where digitalocean differentiates, you know, digitalocean is focused on the uh, and user uh, the developer.
Yeah. Well, it's funny because. I want to step back actually to between between Thunder back because um, you know back up in Buffalo Friday come down to the Europe's New York City. I remember listening to this weekend starters, um and a guy called it was basically like, I don't know what to do with my life.
What should I do to Jessica? Um, and then your recently measuring at New York somehow we connected the - that that digitalocean guy was you I would never do such as you play. I don't know. I don't know why this stood out to me but it did maybe asking similar point my life and Jason's advice sound, you know, kidney is comb as well.
But um, but I bring up the story to kind of show the other others of the journey as possible and it's Christmas after so um, you know, what advice would you have to. You know, I need to pop through that moment. Right like what you could have put many directions, but you decided to found to go to answer that kinds of the child.
What were you thinking? Why was that path you chose? So going back to to the point earlier where I was I was lost and I was uh, you know, I feel like a hit this wall. Um, I was just reaching out to people that have been there and done that and I and and that had a ton of experience and um, you know, successful entrepreneurs and investors and and so, you know, I called email Jason, um, and and asked, you know asked him for.
Advice and helping and I quickly responded and intro me to his podcast coordinator and. He invited me on the show as a guest for what what he calls his ass. Jason segment. Yeah, and so I uh, you know, I think I was 20 26 at the time. Yeah, and I dialed in from my my couch and uh in the city on on Skype and I and I uh asked asked him and um, Dan Martell was on the show as well.
He was the founder of town. Um and Clarity, uh later on both, you know, he sold well company. So he's like this, you know, uh, he's a very successful entrepreneur, uh, serial entrepreneur based in Canada, and he um, so both him and Jason, you know gave me some advice and went on the show when I told him kind of my story about how I was this, you know web developer turned marketer and um, you know, Jason basically told me like, Uh, if you're not learning, you're not growing.
Yeah, you don't have any equity and you don't have any equity in the company that you're building which I didn't at the time. Um, You know basically all signs point to the fact that you're done and you need to be uh, you know, if you need to be pushing yourself, um, and you need to join up, you know a wolf path of you know, hungry wolves that are going to like want to go out and hunt and hustle and grind them and so.
You know, he basically told me like you need to join a YC, uh y combinator, uh accelerator join a you know techstars and and finding uh, a group of of individuals and go out and, you know become a co-founder of a company where you can like. Earn a few points and you know and so, you know, it was what was funny is like I took his his advice word for it.
Actually I did it. Yeah in the crazy thing is is like, you know digitalocean at the time was you know, just getting started. We applied to techstars we got in everything was like super serendipitous and like kind of, you know, all the stars aligned, uh at the right time and um, I went and went through the whole techstars experience.
I slept on a couch for three. Those are Colorado. We didn't even get into the New York City program. We got denied and then we applied again for Boulder summer program. Um, I was dating, uh, my girlfriend at the time who's now my wife and told her, you know, hey, I'm gonna you know, leave her a few months and go sleep on a couch and Bolder and she said, oh that sounds great also with very super supportive going back to the support system.
Yeah, you know the importance of having a support system my wife's um, you know, a huge fan of mine, you know, uh through every step of the journey, so, Uh, it's been super helpful for me to focus. So, um, you know Jason basically like kind of gave me this blueprint and I um, you know, followed it to a tee and got it done and you know after actually executed up but yeah, uh, it was great advice and and um, uh, you know funny because like after digitalocean raised, I series from Andreessen Horowitz, um, 37 million.
Uh, I sent another email to thank him and then he invited me back on the show. Uh where it came full circle and we you know popped up on the on the on the TV and the room the video of me, uh, you know on the adjacent segment asking for advice and so it's just, you know, it's it's it feels um, you know, Stephanie an out-of-body experience.
Um, it's you know, as entrepreneurs built, uh, you know, successful business. Um, it doesn't feel real. You know feels it feels like you know, you ask yourself you wake up. You're like how do this happen to me? You know, it's really it's like shopping. Yeah. Well, this is like right like everything nothing happens overnight.
So if nothing is tracking, it's just the globe, uh transition of thousands millions of decisions. You made along the way. Yeah. Um, awesome. We would take a quick break. We're going to keep talking about digital ocean. How they grew how they represent over 300 million and we'll be right back with one.
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Is it ambition today online at Siskar and follow the show on social media at ambition today? Welcome back Mitchell. We are talkin about digital ocean. Uh sumbitch. Where is the door today? I know they've raised a few hundred million. What so digital ocean is roughly around 400 450 people employees of the business.
Uh, we just brought on a new CEO. Uh Mark Templeton who is the former CEO of Citrix? I scale their business from 15 million to 3 billion in Revenue brought then public, um, and so comes with. Uh, you know ton of experience building and scaling, uh, technology companies into the thousands head count and so has a ton of operational experience there, which is what digitalocean needs to make it to the next level.
Um, and digital ocean has a million. Uh plus developer accounts, um north of 200 million in annual run rate, uh, and they're you know, they just have an enormous. Uh Community, uh community on the platform and so there's just a ton of potential there. And the the platform is continuously improving getting more robust shipping new features almost every month like brunetti.
And so there, you know the platforms evolving and becoming, you know, a serious competitor in the cloud computing space. Um, so. I think the long-term game and digitalocean will as long as they continue to focus on the customer and the developer and and focusing on Simplicity. Um, you know what before I left, uh, we we came up with this tag line that's on the homepage digital cam now called simplicity at scale.
Um, which speaks to the product strategy and vision of maintaining Simplicity, which is really which if it really hard big-ass anything simple is really really really hot, especially when you not only have software to configure and build but you also have Hardware. Configure and so, you know, there's a there's a dual layer of complexity to navigate into uh, you know distill into something that is really simple and easy to use and so that that's where the magic is made.
Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, so now working at Clubhouse software, um, tell us a little bit about what that is where you guys from the back and how was the been going from? You know starting a company growing it to 450 Blaze and coming back to I guess Scotland. Yeah, we have about 25 employees now. Um, so there's definitely a an adjustment period for me going from a you know, 400 plus person business to now a 25-person.
Uh startup, you know young Scrappy agile startup and so um, it brings back a lot of good memories for me, uh, the exciting part of this like I get to learn from my mistakes, um, you know building a company like the ocean and I get to do all over again I get to do it better this time. Yeah, what does class so Clubhouse is a software development platform that uh provides.
A project management tool that is powerful and intuitive for software teams to. Um build great products and it's really, you know, it's to your point earlier with you know, when you uh intro'd the company they found the perfect balance between Simplicity and structure and flexibility and they really found this sweet spot where uh, the uh, project management tool.
Uh is built for software teams, like it's built for software development. But because it's so simple and intuitive any team outside of engineering can collaborate and use it. Yeah, and so which is how to find because I find you know developers love GitHub product management use Trello board. Like it's a hard to find a good at between right and so Clubhouse is great in down these walls and barriers inside tech companies where engineering teams are being cyber because they're using.
Project management tools, um that I was actually speaking about like exactly and everyone outside. The engine is afraid to use it and so it doesn't get used and as a result there's a lack of visibility. There's a lack of transparency a lot of collaboration. And so Clubhouse is breaking down these walls and barriers where outside teams can now collaborate interface with the software development group and um, it's just creating a healthier culture internally a healthier work environment
Um, and like that's that's like the uh, the the ultimate like goal for for clubhouses to um, you know, bring bring joy to to the workplace and to build the most efficient tool for for teams to collaborate. Um, and so. You know similar to slackware, uh slack is was born out of Deaf culture, you know slack is basically IRC just skin and so you have it with gifts exactly and you have Channels with like hashtags before the name
Um, and that would. It's a general tool that is used by all teams inside organizations. So um Clubhouse in a very similar way you have this software development tool with names like stories and ethics and Milestones and like you have all this kind of software terminology, but the interface is so simple and easy to use and intuitive like teams like marketing support and and finance and sales like everyone can collaborate and
It's it's really fun and staff. And so I'm gonna get with it actually download later today and try to try for sure. Everyone should try it. I mean, it's it's a no-brainer 14 14 day free trial, uh starts at ten dollars a month. I mean, it's super two coffees per month. Yeah, exactly. Um, it's funny how we do that right
Looks like it's like. No way five dollars per copy $10 $10 $10 a month for up to 10 users. Yeah, um really, you know, it's super affordable, uh, really simple and easy to get started. So uh, so what's going on a little Mark right you mention that. You know, you feel like a ninja you can learn from your mistakes from before right
So, you know, I know from from listening and doing some research for the plant to me that you know, we had a really good front of digital ocean, right you basically did a lot or you know, you could do that SEO do website for you hit him with the retirement pixel profit back solve them and then you have a referral funnel once their customers, right
So. You know, that one's probably 2014 22 2015. How is what's going on in 2018 in the world of marketing. Uh, what are some things you plan on doing this time? If you did last time what's happened? Yeah, I think uh, you know, there's there's a lot of hurdles to jump with GDP are now data privacy, um with cookies being accepted and so, you know date is getting
Um harder and harder to navigate and um as a result, you know, especially with like ad blockers, um, you know, the world digital marketing is becoming in some ways. The the traditional methods are becoming less effective. And so now uh in you know, in this in this world of social media and content it's you know, it's kind of going uh, full circle and and going back to
Uh storytelling and building a brand and a community and like, you know doing things that don't scale, you know, investing time and building one-to-one relationships and um, just building high-quality content to give to provide value and get back to. Uh your audience your community and you know, it's and all that stuff takes time and it's just um, you know, you have to nurture it for for many years, um, uh, you know to be successful and so um it goes but you know again, it's more about kind of like building a really solid brand, um story um, and just like making sure that story and that message is consistent through every channel
Um, and just. You know to focus on strengthening strengthen strengthening the brand and then also leveraging, um, you know, your existing customer base like if you build like if you focus on building a really great product for your customers and you have a fairly High NPS score that motives for Motorsport, um, you can launch your program and and harness
The the referral power the promoted power of your customers to drive more breath and companies like Airbnb and Uber and digital ocean and. Um Dropbox have have tripled, you know, uh, you know, they drove exponential growth from the referral programs and and then just goes back to building a really great product and focusing on the customers needs and that's why is so important
Yeah. Um, so if you do if you do those two things that I just mentioned really, well, you should be in really good shape and then obviously you can layer in some additional activities. You know, I'm uh, I'm a big believer in having a a fully integrated marketing strategy a multi-channel approach to drive the most awareness and Buzz for the business
But at the end of the day like you got a really got hone in on the basics. Yeah, I love that. Um, so let's quickly jump to the question of the day for the sake of time. So people question the good shows submit your question and we'll get an answer on the future episode. So today is convinced. They questioned a is
Um, you know, do you do you travel often how important is travel to you? Um, and how do you balance time for those new experiences, you know with your wife mentioned earlier family, right? But the need to just get shit done. Yeah, and so so, you know, one of the reasons why I joined a club house was uh, you know, everyone here has a has a family pretty much like we're all you know in our in our 30s, uh, early 40s, and and so we
Um, you know, we have a an appreciation for uh spending time with your family and and its really good culture and definite Family First culture in many ways. And um, you know, I to me, I family's always number one, um in health and business is a far far third or second and so, um when it comes to like traveling and spending time with the family, you know, Make sure like, um, we're taking trips
We're going to make a we just went to Japan for a week, uh, without our 10 month old son. My parents watched him for uh, eight days and the new one. Thanks. And uh, yeah and so, uh, you know, my wife was was a little bit of a mess, you know, like she was she was a little distracted with uh, you know being away from you know, Halfway Around the World
From from our sun but um, we had a great time and um, you know, it's good. Uh, you know, it's just it's just really good to um, um, you know balance family time and you know, there's always this kind of like, uh this term in the industry work-life balance and. Uh, you know, I think I think that's the wrong term to use to describe what matters and I think you know, maybe it's family work-life balance like, you know, and as an entrepreneur like there's definitely a sacrifice that you put in when you build and grow a business from the ground up and there's there is trade-offs with family time, but I try to minimize it as much as I can because
It's really, you know to me it's all about family. Yeah, for sure. I think when you have a job, I think it's easy to say I made it 9 out of 5, right and the rest is family left turn right, but with that crew shapur always operate so I think you're right. It's all about architecting. It's a lifestyle
It's not it's not a job that say you are creating an entire weekly routine lifestyle around all that happened. You know, you're healthy mention Health. That's how you been so. This was great. Uh, if you listening and don't forget to join the faction, we are about to jump over there and you can hear the single greatest piece of advice which has ever received, uh price super founder friendly starting like three dollars
You could visit guard to join today. And as always the showed up which could every this episode links to everything we talked about. I'm the website. Um Mitch. Thanks for coming today what people go find out more about you anything. They should check now. Uh, if you want to go contact me or get in touch
You can email me directly at Mitch at Clubhouse. I love it. Um, awesome. Thank you again for coming out, uh State creates everyone and we will see you on the next episode of ambition today. Thanks for listening to ambition today. Be sure to visit Siskar to get all the information from this episode and more great content until next time stay curious everyone.